When a truly bad actor wants to be seen as a good actor, they often go gruff, they often go moody and, mercilessly and all-too often, they often go unhinged. Gruff, moody and unhinged have saved the careers of several of the worst actors of our generation. By lowering their voices to a growl, grimacing a lot, smoking, going nude, going off the rails, womanising, chowing down on cock, getting punched in the gut in the rain, wearing a dirty trench coat and growing stubble, your shit actor can pretend they’re a brooding, Brando-type character tortured by inner demons; and not that arsehole you remember from that shit ‘80s teen film you used to like until you grew up and started watching proper films. The sort of films that don’t star Corey Feldman or Andrew McCarthy – those sort of films.

Several examples spring to mind. There was bumbling teen dude Keanu Reeves’s transformation from a shockingly bad actor in dross such as Bram Stoker’s Dracula and Parenthood, to troubled, chain-smoking misery guts in Constantine.

There was bubbly, annoying, Tom Hanks barnacle Meg Ryan, who showed us her unconvincing serious side when she opted to get her tits out and become Jim Morrison’s wasted fuck-piece in the monumentally awful The Doors.

And then there was Hanks himself: shouty, whiny and fuckwitted in Splash, Joe Vs the Volcano, The Money Pit, Volunteers, The ‘Burbs, Forrest Gump etc., then brow-beaten and squinty and terribly, terribly worthy in Saving Private Ryan and Philadelphia. Who saw that last one coming? I certainly didn’t – not on the evidence of Big.

By far and away the least convincing gruff transformation for me, however, is Kiefer Sutherland. His schtick in the ‘80s and early ‘90s was to play serious types, loners, badasses and scumbags. Not being able to act his way out of a paper bag, he did this in an incredibly unconvincing fashion in a string of forgettable films that made a lot of money thanks to teenagers, teenagers’ ability to swallow vast tranches of offal, and the invention of VHS.

There was his turn as a vampire in the appalling The Lost Boys; as a cowboy in the shittenfest that was Young Guns and Young Guns II (a bad actors’ ensemble piece spanning two truly evil movies); as a twat in Chicago Joe and the Showgirl, Flatliners, Bright Lights, Big City; and there was his ill-advised go at classic literature when he donned the cape and hat of Athos and became the second-least convincing musketeer in the history of cinema (the first was, of course, Chris O’Donnell – a man who must surely be in the running for the title of ‘Worst Actor of all Time’?).

Then, mercifully, he went away. Like acne and a disturbing crush on the fattest girl in the school, he was left behind as a part of our adolescence.

Sure, he’d pop up from time to time in successful guff such as A Few Good Men, JFK and A Time To Kill, but they weren’t Kiefer movies, they were Tom and Jack and Demi and Samuel L. movies, where Sutherland was called on to play a redneck shitkicker with an unconvincing Southern drawl and a not-particularly menacing menacing streak. For the most part, his career as the ’90s ended and a new century was born was a downward spiral into obscurity as he started punching at his real bad actor weight in direct-to-video masterpieces such as Ground Control, Desert Heat, After Alice and Cowboy Up. The shit actor had finally found his Tom Berenger-shaped niche. He was down where he belonged: with the likes of Chuck Norris and Cynthia Rothrock.

And that’s where he would have stayed – an ex-big gun member of The Brat Pack who’d fallen on high times; another Emilio Estevez; another Ally Sheedy. If fortune hadn’t favoured him, he’d now be starring in joint Russian-Iranian productions with titles such as Kung-Ho Diamond, Last Stand At Pingo-Mino II, and Green Berets Go Space IV. He would have been one of those actors that, upon the announcement of his death many years into the future, you would have said,

“Kiefer Sutherland? I’d forgotten about him. What was that cowboy film he was in? The one where’s he’s a miserable sod with long hair? Gets shot in the second one? Top Gun, was it?”

But, as we all know, Kiefer’s career didn’t turn out like this. Like Roger Moore before him, Kiefer ignored the most important rule when it comes to bad actors (get thee to DVD, Satan!), hung on in there and was rewarded with his very own TV show that went on to be a smash hit around the world.

With the success of 24, Sutherland suddenly found himself being taken seriously by Hollywood again. And they took him seriously because he’d pulled off the neat trick of being gruff, of being moody, and of being unhinged. Using the classic actors’ tricks of mumbling, eye-darting, looking dishevelled, tortured and hunted, Kiefer took a big fat leaf out of Russell Crowe’s and Colin Farrell’s books, emulated the first layer of those actors’ performances, and became one of those post-80s, post-muscle-bound, post-Reaganite everyman action-hero-with-issues types that seem to be what the paying public wants to see in its leading men nowadays.

It was Kiefer reborn, and it was only a matter of time before Hollywood once again came knocking.

And that’s why Friday sees the opening of Kiefer’s first proper, big-budget headliner since being welcomed back into the bosom of the Hollywood elite – Mirrors.

Telling the story of an off-the-rails NYPD detective who has ‘killed a man’, Mirrors sees our Kiefer taking up a job as a security guard in a creepy, fire-damaged department store whilst on suspension from duty. The store – which used to be a 1950s mental asylum, surprise, surprise – is filled to the brim with mirrors; mirrors that contain the souls of those killed by the evil that lurks within them. Once they have their hooks into Kiefer, the things in the mirrors are free to enter any mirror connected with him, and that means his estranged wife, his sister, and his two Latin American (?) children are under threat.

But why, you may ask, are the mirrors picking on Kiefer and his family?

Why, because the souls trapped within want to be set free, and for that to happen Kiefer must unravel a mystery that involves the department store’s previous life as an asylum, a possessed twelve year old, a strange name etched into one of the mirrors, a nun, and ‘something in the basement’.

That’s right, it’s a formulaic horror movie that never strays far from the well-trodden haunted house plot we’ve come to know far too well over the years. It’s as predictable as Ghost Ship, Thirteen Ghosts and House on Haunted Hill. With only a scene where a woman’s face is torn apart before our eyes, Mirrors hasn’t enough shocking moments to lift it above the norm, and isn’t, in its central performance, unhinged enough to put it into the unsettling psychological shocker category either. The thing is, with the correct actor, it could have been.

As discussed, the problem Sutherland has is he cannot act. Because of this disability, he is as unconvincing as a loose cannon shitbag detective with a dysfunctional family and a really, really crap job as he was as a cowboy, or a vampire, or a G.I. or a redneck southern shitkicker with a bad accent. This therefore wastes a potentially interesting lead character. As he frowns into those mirrors, you can’t help but remember he was peddling this inner-demons guff way back in Flatliners, and it wasn’t very convincing then, either. Whereas the modern everyman actor such as Farrell, Crowe or Norton can genuinely convince you that their lives are shit and, boy, are they feeling it, Sutherland just plays Doc from Young Guns – but with more frowning.

There’s a difference between a genuine performance of a man brought to the brink of madness by circumstance (Harvey Keitel, Robert De Niro and Jack Nicholson have all done it with an aplomb that takes your breath away), and an actor who’s probably seen his dad go through hell on earth in a film such as Don’t Look Now, and has decided to give it a go.

On TV – a medium that tends to be forgiving of terrible actors – it’s fine to act all sullen and worried and gruff for forty five minutes. You can get away with it because, well, it’s only TV, isn’t it? But on the big screen, when asked to carry the film for a running time of nearly two hours, you cannot forgive so easily unless the actor is very, very good. Kiefer Sutherland is not, and never will be, very, very good.

With an actor such as the aforementioned Norton in the lead, this movie could have been lifted above the humdrum thanks to a performance that would have made you believe you were watching a down-at-heel scumbag losing his life and his marbles to a building full of satanic mirrors. With Sutherland, you just don’t buy it, and it ruins any chance this film had of rising above its interesting – if not especially original – premise.

That’s why, in my opinion, Kiefer should go back to the small screen where he belongs, and leave the cinema stuff to the big boys.

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151 Responses to “Mirrors”

  1. charliemingles Says:

    Crikey! thats long

  2. Toothed Varmint Says:

    So you reckon that this film’s bad only because it has Kiefer in it?
    I don’t think much of the director, either. I haven’t seen Mirrors (nor do I intend to, especially after this review), but I’ve seen a couple of his previous films and they were shit.

  3. Napoleon Says:

    No, I don’t think it’s bad only because it’s got Kiefer in it. As I say, it’s predictable and has only one genuinely revolting moment. I said, if you’d bothered to read the article properly, that it wouldn’t be as bad (and perhaps could have been quite good) if it had had a decent actor at the helm.

  4. Toothed Varmint Says:

    I read it, I read it. It’s long, but I like long. Do you mean “a decent director at the helm”? Cos that’s who usually is at the helm when a film is being made.

  5. Napoleon Says:

    Alright, not ‘at the helm’ (been reading Empire magazine?), but you know what I mean. There’s nothing wrong with the direction of the film, except perhaps that the director should have taken his lighting crew to one side and asked ’em to switch on a few more bulbs. The art direction is spot on – the sets, especially for the department store, are excellent. It’s just the toweringly unconvincing presence of Sutherland that fucks the film over.

  6. ugeine Says:

    Aw, I liked Big.

  7. Napoleon Says:

    I liked Big when I was a kid. I just never expected its lead actor to grow up and stop being Tom Hanks. I think he took squinting lessons from Clint Eastwood.

  8. Toothed Varmint Says:

    I read Sight and Sound, thank you very much. I want proper pretentious, not some soft-core plebs shit.
    But I’m convinced by your argument. I am not a huge Kiefer fan, to put it mildly.

  9. Toothed Varmint Says:

    One scene in Big I’ve always found disturbing. When he sleeps with that woman. He is 12 years old for pete’s sake!

  10. Napoleon Says:

    I was a Kiefer fan in my younger days. I liked him no less than Emilio Estevez, Judd Nelson, Charlie Sheen, Christian Slater and the rest. Then I watched stuff from the 70s starring Gene Hackman and Robert De Nior and Al Pacino, and realised the Brat Pack were a bunch of chancers who couldn’t act. I recently watched New Jack City again, and the only actor who really jarrs in the film is Nelson. An achievement when you consider both Ice T and Wesley Snipes are in it.

  11. Napoleon Says:

    Varmint – It was a more innocent time. Now that Michael Jackson’s muddied the waters, I don’t think that sort of thing would be allowed on screen anymore.

  12. charliemingles Says:

    Jings! Ive just watched an episode of QI on Dave Ive never seen before. Thats the first time this has happened. Its like being on the drugs.

  13. Napoleon Says:

    I’ve never seen an episode of QI on Dave I’ve not see before. I’m not sure whether to trust you on this, Mingles.

  14. Toothed Varmint Says:

    I can’t say I ever liked Kiefer all that much but, truth be told, preferred him to Estevez, Sheen, Lou Diamond Phillips, Casey Sziemashko and whoever else. Slater I still kinda like.
    Nelson in New Jack City was atrocious. I only watched this film onу time long ago, but I remember how over-the-top and ridiculous he came across.

  15. Nick T Says:

    Sorry, too long.

    I have work to do.

  16. charliemingles Says:

    NC: No. I swear. Its only from the ‘c’s’ though. So, I’m afraid it’s obviously just one I’d missed earlier.

    I appear to be able to watch the same episodes up to 8 times and still not remember any of the answers.

    The only one I remember is the one where they listed parsnips and caravans with names like tornado, avenger and dreadnought. Other than that, I never remember a word.

    Im sure SH has memorised the whole thing though. What with his Tefal-like mind.

  17. Napoleon Says:

    I seem to catch the one where that woman solves that big equation all the time. And the one where Rory McGrath comes across as too clever by half. I’ve seen those episodes so many times, I know all the words.

  18. piqued Says:

    I keep seeing those too NC and the one with Rich Hall

  19. Napoleon Says:

    It’s like the Top Gear episode with the Veyron vs. the plane. They show that one every other hour, I think.

  20. charliemingles Says:

    the rory mcgrath one where he knows all the latin names. He even irritates stephen fry with his smartarse-ishness, which is truly something to behold.

    Sean Lock finding a portal into the underworld whilst rory and stephen are discussing latin names was one of my favourite moments. his 15 storey high was one of the best sitcoms around.

    the big equation is obviously one I have yet to see.

  21. charliemingles Says:

    does anyone else think rich hall isnt nearly as funny as he obviously thinks he is?

    Seems like a nice guy. But not that funny. Ive seen him live, lots of old material but gets away with it because of his confidence and laconic world-weary delivery.

  22. Napoleon Says:

    I mentioned 15 Storeys High to Swineshead in our conversation about boiled eggs and porn. That was a great show. How come you get hardly any o’ them, and twenty billion Two Pints?

  23. piqued Says:

    15 Stories High was quite brilliant

    (pssst, you can watch ’em all on yoohootube)

  24. charliemingles Says:

    I guess the typical demographic tv types are chasing these days isnt the typical 15 storeys high viewer.

    You need to have a little life experience to enjoy that show, so its not aimed at 15-25 years olds. Some great stuff on that though.

    About five minutes of just a guy swearing as he tries to open his cutlery drawer but a spatula is wedged the wrong way round. Blue Rat. The divorced dad keeping a shitting pony in his spare room on the 12th floor because his daughter the ‘little princess’ visits at weekends. that great readers wifes gag. superb stuff.

  25. Napoleon Says:

    It was brilliant, if sadly short-lived.

    Now then. Has there ever been a report on British televison about Australia broadcast since 1981 that doesn’t feature Men At Work’s ‘Down Under’ as backing? And is this true for other nations?

  26. Toothed Varmint Says:

    Youtube! Thanks for the tip, Piqued. I thought 15 Storeys High was excellent.
    I watched all Larry Sanders shows on Youtube, it was fiddly but well worth it.

  27. piqued Says:

    Happy to help TV

    *gets on horse*

    *rides off into the sunset*

    *comes back*

    Forgot my hat, durrrr

  28. Napoleon Says:

    It’s hardly a revelation that YouTube contains stuff you might want to watch. I think Piqued’s taking a bit too much credit for this.

    And his hat’s SHIT.

  29. piqued Says:

    NC, come on m8, you’re being all fractious today

    Wanna chat? Eh? Eh?

    ahahaha, there you go! There’s that smile…


    *stuffs cock down throat*

  30. Napoleon Says:

    Fractious, be-damned! I just don’t care for your Roy Rogers routine, you pumpernickel. Reading that, you’d think you were the only person party to the mysteries of YouTube. Balls! D’ye hear? BALLS.

    *laughs at the very idea that Piqued can stand up long enough to get his phallus down anyone’s throat*

  31. piqued Says:

    I bloody well can, NC, just you fucking watch this

    *fumbles with acorn*

    Hang on, nnnnnggh

    *desperately tries to achieve some sort of rigidity*

    Come on baby, *cough* there you go… come on

    *puts tiny penis away*

    Oh forget it.

  32. Napoleon Says:

    I’d have added,

    *falls over and pops kneecap*

    to that list.

  33. piqued Says:

    You can’t without written permission I’m afraid

  34. Swineshead Says:

    I notice Paul Calf’s Video Diaries are on youtube too, in full.

    As for Kiefer, I’m forced to agree.

    My brother had hair like what he had in Lost Boys in the 80s. At the time I thought it was the coolest. Looking back at photos, it is not the coolest.

  35. Swineshead Says:

    Seriously though – I didn’t know about Youtube before Piqued told me about it. I owe him a lot, and not only for that.*

    * I owe him three quid.

  36. piqued Says:

    Hey, Help is what Piqued stands for yeah


  37. piqued Says:

    You’d better have that 3 quid tonight SH or you’ll be picking up your fucking teeth with broken fingers, capiche gringo?

  38. piqued Says:

    Oh, my ‘accountant’ tells me it’s now a grand, interest. It’s not me that makes the rules sonny

  39. Napoleon Says:

    I’ll buy that debt off Piqued for £3.50, add 30% APR per month on top of it, then, when you don’t pay up, I’ll hound you with debt collection agencies until I drive you into a debt-riddled early grave.

    Any good to you, Piqued?

    I remember your brother’s hair like that. Monstrous, but, like you say, cool for the times. That’s the point of Kiefer too. He was cool in the 80s if you were a kid. Not so cool now you’ve watched Network, The Conversation and All The President’s Men.

  40. Napoleon Says:

    Bugger, he’s set the interest too high for my blood. And speaking of interest, it’s £30 you owe me now, Piqued.

  41. piqued Says:

    I owe you nothing NC, Big Simon sorted Clefty out at The Spearmint Rhino on Tuesday afternoon. Says you were there with Bubbles and Kent

  42. Swineshead Says:

    I can’t watch West Ham on Match of the Day any more without thinking about East End men in football shirts fellating a Baltimore drug addict.

  43. Napoleon Says:

    Fair enough, I enjoyed my session with both the pneumatic Bubbles and the muscular and manly Kent, and wasn’t aware that you had stumped up the reddies. Thanks for that … though next time you can tell Bubbles her services will not be required.

  44. Dave Says:

    Wow. This is like reading, like, EMPIRE magazine or HOTDOG or something proper like that. It took less time to crack the human geno than it did to read this post and I enjoy the fact it did.

    But hasn’t the premise of souls in mirrors been around since mirrors began? Off the top of my empty head I can think of Are You Afraid of The Dark?, Doctor Who and, well, The Evil Dead 3.

  45. Napoleon Says:

    As I say, Dave, it’s not an especially original premise. Neither was The Shining, yet look how that turned out thanks to the right actor being cast in the lead role.

  46. Napoleon Says:

    Is Hotdog still going?

  47. piqued Says:

    You’re alright with me NC, I’l have a word in the shell like ear of Bubbles

    ‘Ere you brother out of Pentonville yet? Fat Colin has a job lined up, reckons he could use a good driver. Didn’t hear it from me though, that toerag Maurice has his fucking gander up

  48. Dave Says:

    But The Shining was panned by Stephen King, was it not? So much in fact he stuck his oar heavily into the TV adaptation.

    I don’t know what that has to do with your comment but I’ll state it anyway, by God.

  49. Dave Says:

    Hotdog died, by the way. I do miss it so.

  50. piqued Says:

    Was that your pet Cat Dave

  51. Napoleon Says:

    Have you read The Shining? The only way Kubrick could make it filmable was by cutting out the voo-doo mumbo jumbo Shining rubbish from the book, and concentrating on the breakdown of Jack story instead. King panned this version, made one of his own with all the shite put back in, and it was possibly the worst Stephen King adaptation ever. That’s not bad going if you consider stiff opposition such as IT, The Langoliers and Christine.

  52. Napoleon Says:

    I used to like Hotdog.

    *waits for Piqued to make cock joke*

  53. Dave Says:

    No, but what a great name for a cat.

  54. Swineshead Says:

    Christine was a dreadful film. Utter shit.
    Cujo was alright.

  55. piqued Says:

    I agree with NC about The Shining, Kubrick didn’t do a good job of explaining certain aspects but it stands alone as they only good King book turned into a film. King’s version of it was un-watchable.


  56. charliemingles Says:

    Stephen King has a terrible track record in adaptations of his own work.

    Misery the movie, with screenplay by double-oscar winning genius William Goldman, was much better than the book which goes into the usual Stephen King introspective wank about how hard it is being a writer. Is it fuck you specky dipso billionaiire zuber-geek.

  57. piqued Says:

    I like Misery, that mean bloke who pays for his milk in coppers and uses yesterday’s Standard as a tablecloth, genius

  58. Napoleon Says:

    I think the best names for a cat are, in order of be-bettermentation:

    1. Colonel Fishfinger
    2. Mr. Wilson
    3. Sideways
    4. ‘Is Lordship
    5. Cap’n Catfood

    For dogs, it depends on the breed. Bulldogs need military-style names such as ‘The Brigadier’ or ‘Sergeant Bones’, whereas uppity dogs such as Pugs need snooty names such as ‘Mr. Wuffles’, ‘Frooty-Poohs’ or ‘Mugglewumps’.

  59. Napoleon Says:

    There have been plenty of King books turned into good films. The aformentioned The Shining, Carrie, Misery, The Shawshank Redemption, Stand By Me, etc. There was a very good recent one called The Mist which is worth watching too.

  60. piqued Says:

    I thought Alan Partridge having guard dogs called Tintin and Pickles was a stroke of brilliance

    Best dog name ever, Wanker

  61. Swineshead Says:

    Stand By Me… featuring…. anyone?

  62. Dave Says:

    Christine was the first King book I’d ever read. It was a bashed-up 70s softback and I read it in a wooden cottage in the Scottish woodland.

    For that reason I like the film and all that.

    The Running Man was the worst adaptation of a King book asin it bares no similarity at all to anything in the book.

  63. Napoleon Says:

    Kiefer Sutherland! Playing a bullying shitkicker in a not particularly convincing fashion, of course.

  64. piqued Says:

    Ahha, you’re bang wrong as both Stand by Me and Shawshank were short stories. Not books!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11


    Carrie was shit, CM was right about Misery and The Mist is (I’ll admit pretty good *ahem*)

  65. Swineshead Says:

    Good work Napoleon. Gold star.

    Dave – your first book was a Stephen king? Did you not read any kids books? Mine was Fantastic Mr Fox.

  66. Napoleon Says:

    That wasn’t the worst, Dave. I forget the name of the thing, but there was one starring Max Von Sydow as the owner of a mysterious shop that was absolutely fucking appalling. And what about IT? Or Delores Claybourn?

  67. charliemingles Says:

    Kiefer Sutherland reminds me physically of a sort of American Keith Chegwin, even the name sound similar – Keef.

    A British remake of 24 starring Cheggers as Jack Baeur would be great viewing. And of course he could draw on his own life for the violent alcoholic loner bit.

  68. piqued Says:

    Needful Things, awful

  69. Napoleon Says:

    CM was right about The Mist? Don’t you mean I was right about The Mist? Seeing as I brought it up, like?

  70. Dave Says:

    The Mist was super good. What’s the collection of short stories it was in called? I was scanning for it in Waterstones last month.

  71. charliemingles Says:

    SH: I liked fantastic mr fox also. But the sequel, when he finds out mrs fox has been working as a page-three girl and hangs himself – was surprisingly less popular. children are so fickle.

  72. Swineshead Says:

    Dave is ignoring my perfectly polite query, Mingles. It makes me SICK.

  73. piqued Says:

    I said Misery NC, you blind twot

  74. Dave Says:

    SH – I stated it was my first king book, not firs f’king book. Now answer my query.

  75. Napoleon Says:

    Sorry, Piqued. It’s difficult to decipher your true meaning when the crayon slips and you produce abominations such as this:

    “Carrie was shit, CM was right about Misery and The Mist is (I’ll admit pretty good *ahem*)”

  76. charliemingles Says:

    dont bring me into it SH. I love you both. dont make me chose between my two boys – dont.

    Its like sophies choice. but without sting popping up to ruin it.

  77. charliemingles Says:

    anyone know whether a VIDEO_TS.VOB file will play on my Divx windows media player?

  78. piqued Says:

    That’s okay NC, no problemo


  79. Swineshead Says:

    Charlie – should do – VOB is basically the file they embed shop bought DVDs with.

  80. charliemingles Says:

    dont worry, ive found an avi version. brilliant.

  81. Swineshead Says:

    Or is it the one a DVD recorder will record TV shows as….?
    I forget… weither way it should work – if not download and use mplayer or VLC. They’ll play owt.

  82. Napoleon Says:

    If Sophie’s choice had been MY choice, it wouldn’t have been any choice at all. I’d have kept the boy and handed the girl over to the Nazis. For all you know, that boy could grow up to be a highly-successful Premiership footballer who keeps you in the lap of luxury fior the rest of your life. What’s the girl going to grow up to be?

    Some idiot’s wife, that’s what!

  83. charliemingles Says:

    thanks SH. seems around 6 times larger file for the same film though. I think avi should be okay.

  84. Napoleon Says:

    Swineshead – The whiskey’s kicking in then?

  85. charliemingles Says:

    SH: My wee brother just gave me a version of VLC. he claims it can do everything up to and including cure the aids. I havent tried it yet.

  86. Napoleon Says:

    Someone’s found a cure for The AIDS?

  87. charliemingles Says:

    yes NC. My brother apparantly. the amazing thing is, hes only an electrician – but he seems to have cracked it

  88. Dave Says:

    Remember when HMV had the ‘HMV Positive’ promotional thing’?

    I do.

  89. piqued Says:

    You have a wee brother CM? Perhaps he should meet my poo sister? Just a thought

  90. Napoleon Says:

    See? It’s not always the scientists that lead the way. How much does your brother want for his cure, Mingles? I fear I may have picked up a spot of The AIDS after a recent tour of the Portsmouth harbourside.

  91. charliemingles Says:

    A small spot of THE AIDS never hurt anyone Napoleon. Dont believe the hype.

    Piqued: response 1: Im scottish, sometimes I slip into the slangs. I know its hard to penetrate. response 2: thats a terrible joke. your back must be out again.

  92. indy Says:

    napoleon “With the success of 24, Sutherland suddenly found himself being taken seriously by Hollywood again. And they took him seriously because he’d pulled off the neat trick of being gruff, of being moody, and of being unhinged…”

    this part must be read with the adam curtis voiceover and if possible, with prokofiev’s “the knights’ dance” in the background. brilliant.

  93. Swineshead Says:

    There’s an Oxford comma in there, n’all.

    I think.

    I hate Vampire Weekend.

  94. piqued Says:

    Terrible joke? TERRIBLE JOKE


  95. Swineshead Says:



  96. Napoleon Says:

    *looks for some Prokofiev*

    Hmm … will Daniel O’Donnell do?

  97. Dave Says:

    Vampire Weekend are good. They signed a piece of paper for me in Zavvi and I threw it in the bin straight after.

  98. indy Says:

    napoleon: no.

  99. Swineshead Says:

    The best place for a piece of paper signed by that unremarkable band, Dave. That’s the best thing you’ve done this year, right there.

    If you dispute that fact, tell me the best thing you’ve done all year and I’ll be the judge.

  100. Dave Says:

    Probably is the best thing…

    One of my workmate’s a big fan and I had nohing to do that Sunday so went along. I’ve had his VW album for 3 months now, left it at my grans. I suspect he hates me for it but I keep telling him it’s a kindness I’ve extended.

  101. charliemingles Says:

    Piqued: meant to say, I know white pudding contains suet, so technically is not a vegetarian option. I dont know whether to be impressed or stupefied by your vast culinary knowledge …


    Stupefied it is.

    Heres something you might al have already seen. If not, only the hardest heart could fail to melt ….

  102. Napoleon Says:

    I had a book signed by Dan Brown a couple of years ago. Threw that away.

  103. charliemingles Says:

    If a ‘vampire weekend’ involves staying up till dawn and losing lots of blood, that just called a ‘weekend’ up here and so does not require the epithet ‘Vampire’ before it. hope that clears up any confusion.

    * I’m sure SH will let me know whether or not that is the correct use of the term ‘epithet’ That english degree has to be used for something I suppose.

  104. piqued Says:

    Well done for your quick response though

    There’s nothing tecnical about it CM, it’s got meat in it and isn’t vegetarian. You sound like my mum trying to make me eat ‘well it’s just a bit of chicken’ when I was a vegan

    Knowing suet is meat-based isn’t what I’d call enigmatic either…

    and that youtube thing gave me a fucking stonk-on

  105. charliemingles Says:

    Piqued: you dont have to make it with meat in it, Surely the suet function can be performed by non-meat based substances? My mother, when I was also a teenage vegetarian, made it without meat. doesnt hold together as well, but tastes just as good.

    *sound of everyone else leaving the room*

  106. Dave Says:

    The sign of a royal tit is a teenager that ‘decides’ to be vegan. You’ll eat what you’re bloody given at that age. Eat what you’re given. Did you both watch The Animals of Farthing Wood too much then? Or was it David the Gnome?

  107. charliemingles Says:

    its called being an individual dave. And having the respect of your family. you might not recognise such concepts.

    *hugs dave*

    watch that lion video I posted and open your stony heart young man.

  108. piqued Says:

    I’m not disagreeing with CM, when NC said it had suet in it I just assumed it had suet in it. You said it had suet in it too.

    And now you’re saying it’s not got suet in it, or it might have, or not, or whatever.

    I’m sorry but this White Pudding sounds like a fucking lie.

  109. Swineshead Says:

    Mingles is acting strange today – he’s been mocking me all bloody day and I haven’t even responded. The big, fat, ugly, scotch bastard.

  110. Swineshead Says:

    White Pudding does exist though, I seen it.

  111. Dave Says:

    You’re not informed enough to be an individual at that age, you’re informed enough to be a spoilt little bastard. If I was your mother I’d have beaten you within an inch of your life and locked you under the stairs.

    Did you have a Sylvanian Families treehouse as a young’n?

  112. Napoleon Says:

    I’ve not only seen it, I’ve sampled the filth. One of the most disgusting foodstuffs I’ve ever eaten.

  113. charliemingles Says:

    no I havent swineshead. just trying to tease you into joining in.

    *hugs SH*

    pals again?

  114. piqued Says:

    And what age was that then Dave?

  115. charliemingles Says:

    that reveals a lot about your childhood dave.

    *hugs dave*

    what the hell

    *hugs everybody*

    Piqued: I dont remember saying there was suet in the stuff? My only point was that surely suet performs a binding function, which can be had from non-meat sources if required. the actual ingredients of white pudding are, so far as I know: oatmeal and various spices, sort of haggis without the meat.

  116. piqued Says:

    ‘I’ve not only seen it, I’ve sampled the filth. One of the most disgusting foodstuffs I’ve ever eaten.’

    Christ, coming from the bloke that eats donkeydogs and scabby chicken I’ll avoid

  117. Dave Says:

    0-15, I would say. 16 for you.

  118. charliemingles Says:

    Piqued: Rememebr NC hates everything thats not from the north and was made after about 1978.

  119. piqued Says:

    It was Easter, Dave. I was 29

  120. piqued Says:

    (worked out that I was visiting yet you tit)

  121. Clarry Says:

    It’s taken me ALL DAY to catch up with all the goings on at WWM since I last visited on Wednesday afternoon. Christ, you lot have been busy!

    I have the following things to add:

    15 Stories High was ace! I’d forgotton all about the pony in the moon boots… Thanks CM. Think i’m gonna watch it again tonight.

    Why is deciding to be veggie/vegan the sign of a tit Dave? I don’t think people do it to seek attention. I spent a good 10 years ‘eating what I was given’ without question, to find that i’d been eating, amongst other things, delights such as tripe, tongue, liver and stuffed hearts. I ate it because it didn’t taste too bad, but if I knew what it was there’s no way on earth i’d have eaten it. I’ve been a vegetarian for nearly 17 years. I did try being a vegan for a bit and agree that’s just silly.

  122. Dave Says:

    In that case I’d shake your hand and congratulate you on your once ethical view of eating dead animals. I’d also ask whether you’ve seen that film called Earthlings.

    Good lad.

  123. charliemingles Says:

    dave, save us all some time here. You’ll eventually break down in remorse and apologise for everything at some point.

    Why not save us some time and aggro and get it out of the way now? then we can all make up and have a good weekend? what do you say old pal?

  124. charliemingles Says:

    SH Im still waiting for my kiss? dont make me come up there!

  125. charliemingles Says:

    Clarry: that explains why youre such a skinny wee thing. If you could force some meat down youd put some bulk on in no time. But I understand the ethical concerns having been a veggie myself once.

    Its Tits or Principles, I guess.

  126. ugeine Says:

    My esteemed colleagues seem to think that typing addresses and fax numbers all day requires my undivided attention, so I haven’t been able to get on this sodding thing all day. Did I miss much?

  127. Swineshead Says:

    *undoes fly for mingles*

    Dave – my other half is a vegan (pretty much apart from a fondness for cakes). Has been since she was a teenager.

    She’s not a tit. You’re a tit.

    Is this really helping with your poor self-image? Coming on a blog and ‘doing a Tombstone’?

  128. Dave Says:

    CM – I read The Fortean Times once and it told me turnips scream when you poke them.

  129. Clarry Says:

    CM – I will definitely never eat meat again. I’m not a militant veggie, each to their own I say.

  130. Clarry Says:

    SH – I found being a vegan nigh on impossible. I suppose it depends on where you draw the line… A true vegan shouldn’t even eat a veggie burger or meat substitutes such as quorn on the quob. I can’t live without dairy products.

  131. charliemingles Says:

    me too Clarry. I agree. I have periods when I go veggie for a few months. I always feel better afterwards. men have this caveman streak though.

  132. Dave Says:

    I wasn’t attacking vegans. I’m attacking youngsters that decide they don’t want to eat animals because they are all cute and lovely. Don’t personalise it.

  133. Swineshead Says:

    She can’t help it Clarry, she’s repulsed by milk and cheese. And my body.

    I’ve considered confronting her with my body smeared with milk and cheese, perhaps on Hallowe’en. This would be further enhanced by the fact that Hallowe’en is my birthday.

    She can handle the humble egg though – further proof that the egg is king of foods.

  134. Clarry Says:

    “CM – I read The Fortean Times once and it told me turnips scream when you poke them.”

    Dave – Please don’t say things like that, I’m a soppy twat. I feel distressed at the thought of leaving a lone bean in the bottom of the can, almost as though I would be depriving it of fulfilling it’s destiny. That is the truth.

  135. ugeine Says:

    ‘I’m attacking youngsters ‘

    I guess I did miss a lot then.

  136. Swineshead Says:

    Dave’s always attacking the young. More often than not, they win the fight and he returns to his filthy bedsit a broken, defeated man-child.

  137. Dave Says:

    Clarry – Sounds like OCD to me. It’s a nice way to look at the world, I’m the complete opposite. I leave beans in the tin to spite them.

  138. charliemingles Says:

    Aww Clarry, you’ll make a nice mum you wee softie.

  139. Dave Says:

    I don’t live in a bedsit, it’s clean and tidy bit, yes, I am a manchild.

    Just to clear that up.

    And can I have your phonenumber please, SH?

  140. Swineshead Says:


    Bye bye!

  141. Dave Says:


  142. Clarry Says:

    SH – If she eats eggs then she isn’t a vegan she’s just a plain old veggie that doesn’t eat some dairy products. A bit like a person who eats fish calling themselves a vegetarian, they are just a person who doesn’t eat meat aka a pescatarian.

    “I wasn’t attacking vegans. I’m attacking youngsters that decide they don’t want to eat animals because they are all cute and lovely. Don’t personalise it.”

    “Sounds like OCD to me.”

    Dave – Yes I am a bit OCDish from time to time – depends how stressed I am. As for your ‘hey don’t personalise it’ bollocks, fuck off and don’t be so patronising.

    CM – Ridiculous aren’t I? *blushes*

  143. Clarry Says:

    SH – Hey give him that flirt divert number off of Scott Mills’ show, that way we can all hear his deluded ramblings on the radio.

  144. charliemingles Says:

    No Clarry. Youre the sort of girl I dreamt of in primary school.

    *produces bunch of flowers*

  145. charliemingles Says:

    So far as the world economy – whats the next euphamism up from ‘meltdown’?

    I think we need to start using it.

  146. Clarry Says:

    CM – It’s not a fantastic trait to have though, it kind of waylays me… Most people I work with can recount the tale when I went dashing out over the fields to save a rabbit being attacked by a stoat, only to lose both of my shoes and one sock in the mud AND the rabbit was dead when I got there.

    P.S SH – Is your body made of milk and cheese then?

  147. Dave Says:

    *skips away to start a pointless anti-ratting campaign*

  148. charliemingles Says:

    Well Clarry: some meat would add some aggression to that pixiefied view of the world. Sounds like your doctor should maybe prescribe it.

    Alternatively – have you tried meditiation? that solves most problems I find.

  149. Clarry Says:

    CM – I’m a 24 carat sap and no amount of meat or counselling will alter that.

    I’m off now, have good weekends y’all.

  150. Dave Says:

    Sorry, everybody for my conduct today. You are all my betters.

    I’m off for some pub-based fun, have a great weekend everybody!

  151. Swineshead Says:

    I’m aware of that Clarry but thanks for stating the obvious.



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