Your View – Carol and the ‘Golliwog’

by

carol thatcher

Go on then – it’s all over the press so let us discuss it here.

Carol Thatcher, daughter of an evil alien and winner of I’m a Celebrity… Get Me Out Of Here compared a black tennis player to a golliwog – as we’re all aware, by now. This occurred in a ‘green room’ at the BBC in the company of Adrian Chiles, Jo Brand and the delightful Christine Bleakley.

Several people in the room took offence, one called The Sun(?) and Jay Hunt sacked the Thatch.

Case for the prosecution:

  • The term, if overheard and out of historical context, could cause offence.
  • Comparisons to Jonathan Ross are irrelevant as he was only offensive to one individual.
  • Ross apologised whilst Thatcher refuses to.
  • It was a Comic Relief event, making it somehow even worse.

Case for the defence:

  • We don’t know the exact context of her blatherings.
  • Jonathan Ross was offensive (all the same) and didn’t get sacked.
  • It was a comparison pertaining to appearance alone.

Personally, I’m just glad she’s off the TV.

What’s your take, WWMers?

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196 Responses to “Your View – Carol and the ‘Golliwog’”

  1. John Q Wagonwheel Says:

    Angins 2 gud for em.

  2. Anifersgirl Says:

    Just like to say, I’m currently producing the new series of Noddy in Toyland,and I think twice about using the word ‘golliwog’ even in it’s original context, never mind anywhere else!

  3. John Q Wagonwheel Says:

    Were there golliwogs in Noddy? Or was that just a massive clanger?

  4. Swineshead Says:

    What about Big Ears? Some kids have massive ears.

  5. Swineshead Says:

    There were golliwogs in Noddy, I believe. And something similarly dubious in Rupert.

  6. Von Says:

    I’m happy she’s off the telly. What point did she serve exactly?

  7. John Q Wagonwheel Says:

    True, if I had big ears (I don’t have big ears, mind), I’d find Noddy racist. Have I got big ears?

  8. Nick T Says:

    The Ross comparison was made by Tebbit and is as flawed as his politics.

    Ross offended 1 person, Thatcher millions.

    If I made a racist comment at work, I would be diceplined and so should she.

  9. Napoleon Says:

    “We don’t know the exact context of her blatherings.”

    We do. She said a tennis player’s hair made them look like a gollywog.

  10. Swineshead Says:

    Say it on the terraces and you’d get arrested. The lines are all blurry. You white wanker.

  11. Swineshead Says:

    Nappers – was it derogatory, ironic, said whilst she pulled her own hair out or spoken as she softly masturbated?

    ‘Context’ relates to more than just what was said.

  12. John Q Wagonwheel Says:

    Been watching The Wire recently then, SH?

  13. piqued Says:

    It was a racist comment made in public for which she refused to apologise for, for that she got what she deserved the arrogant (and racist) old bitch

  14. John Q Wagonwheel Says:

    Sounds like you just want all the spawn of Thatcher to burn, piqued.

  15. Swineshead Says:

    What’s The Wire got to do with anything?

  16. Napoleon Says:

    Swineshead – As far as I’m aware, it was said as an off-the-cuff jokey comment that fell flat on its arse. Instead of someone saying, ‘Now come on, Carol, that’s a bit off.’, someone buggered off and told The Sun. I don’t believe she was being racist, and I certainly don’t believe she should either apologise or lose her job. What if every fucking thing we’d ever said was scrutinised for supposed offense and forwarded on to our employers?

  17. John Q Wagonwheel Says:

    “Say it on the terraces and you’d get arrested. The lines are all blurry.”

    Sounds like David Simon himself uttered it.

  18. Swineshead Says:

    She said it in her employer’s building… so whilst at work. And ‘as far as your aware’ doesn’t cut it. But i agree, your take on it is most likely.

    For what it’s worth, I doubt anyone would be genuinely offended. But hey ho – goodbye Carol – you silly sod. Watch your tongue in future, eh?

  19. Swineshead Says:

    I’m sure David Simon regularly attends Spurs matches, JQW. You weirdo.

  20. Ashby de la Launde Says:

    What’s Richard Littlejohn’s take on all this, that’s what I want to know (but haven’t looked up yet.)??

  21. Swineshead Says:

    I reckon R Littlejohn is working out the stats on whether or not you could have made the event up.

  22. Napoleon Says:

    So what’s ‘your take’, then? That she deliberately set out to make a racist comment that would see her banned from the airwaves? Highly unlikely. As far as I’m concerned, this is the BBC wetting its pants and reacting in a knee-jerk fashion thanks to the shitstorm they suffered over the Ross/Brand affair.

  23. ugeine Says:

    Despite how underhanded her colleague was for running off and telling the Sun, it’s textbook inferential racism. really, we wouldn’t be having this argument if it wasn’t.

  24. Swineshead Says:

    I’m saying I don’t have a take. I haven’t presented an argument, as far as I’m aware, beyond the fact we don’t know the context (which we provably don’t – we weren’t there) and that I’m glad the old sod is off the telly!

    You’re sounding a bit worked up, Nappers…

  25. Mel Says:

    Well, in my opinion, since you asked, I think it is correct that she should be castigated. It is not an acceptable term any more, and has been used in a racist manner before. She is a journalist, and therefore should be more up to date with these things. She is not a prince, who is so far removed from reality that they may not see the error of their ways (although to be very clear, i don’t actually see this as an excuse for Prince Harry either, and the fawning disclaimer that the ‘victim’ gave was just reinforcing his disconnect and his excuse, but that is for another day).

    I think that people that say things that others find offensive like this should be challenged, as otherwise they will think that , while not acceptable, they can get away with it.

    However, what i did not realise was that this was said in the green room, and that one of the people there chose to tell the Soaraway Scum, rather than tackle it in person. This is not acceptable. I think that they had the right to bring this to the attention of the bosses, as you would if you witnessed any discrimination at work. However, they really should have made it clear to Carol that she had been offensive, and that they expected her not to repeat things like that again, even in jest. To tackle it through the national newspapers can be seen as a little cowardly. She should have been made to apologise by the individual and by her boss, and she has refused, and so has rightly had to suffer the consequences.

    I also think that we should discount anything whatsoever Norman Tebbit has to say about race, as his record is hardly untarnished is it?

    Blimey, that was long…

  26. Napoleon Says:

    Ugeine – I don’t agree. If we were all in the staff canteen and Piqued walked in sporting an outrageous afro, and one of us said he looked like a gollywog, would you say that person was being racist? And would you then ring up a national newspaper and report the comment to the boss, leading to that person’s firing?

  27. Swineshead Says:

    It was close to my take on it, Mel – which I hadn’t disclosed until just before the hyphen there. Despite whatever that fiend Napoleon might say. The liar.

  28. Napoleon Says:

    “You’re sounding a bit worked up, Nappers…”

    Forgive me, but I thought that was the point?

  29. Swineshead Says:

    Nappers – in that example, I would suggest that the use of the word ‘golliwog’ is out of order, redundant and stupid. I wouldn’t call the Sun because Piqued isn’t famous and I’d stand to gain nothing but rejection and a loss of about 20 pence to BT.

    I can’t imagine what the staff canteen at WWM towers would serve. Kievs, obviously.

  30. piqued Says:

    ‘As far as I’m aware, it was said as an off-the-cuff jokey comment that fell flat on its arse.’

    Saying ‘Golliwog’ is unforgivably racist! To see a person’s hair for fucks sake and think ‘Gollywog,’ implies an inherent racism.

  31. Swineshead Says:

    You don’t have to be worked up to have a view. Feel free to get yourself in a tizzy though, it’s good. Gets the blood pumping.

    What would you buy from the WWM staff canteen? I reckon Who, BMTV, Edna and Clarry would be the dinnerladies.

    (Is that sexist?)

  32. Ashby de la Launde Says:

    The term golliwog is a racist term. As far as I know, it has no other connotations. It is used only by racists as a flagrant exhibition of their nefarious and outmoded views. If I used it my place of work, I would expect the sack, or least the trouble.

    The maths is simple. Do it. Show your working.

  33. Napoleon Says:

    So you can’t compare one thing to another now? Why not go the whole hog and put a blanket ban on saying anything that may be seen as offensive, then? Better we all keep our mouths shut just in case somebody’s back is rubbed up the wrong way, yes?

  34. Napoleon Says:

    ADLL – It’s also a term used to describe a doll and an image on a jam jar. Or are we retro-fitting the past again?

  35. Nick T Says:

    If I was Carol Thatcher I’d disown my mother….

  36. Ashby de la Launde Says:

    Napoleon – There was a fair bit of racism in the past, or so I understand. So much so that a racist image on a jam jar was deemed acceptable. I think Robertson’s have distanced themselves from it more recently.

  37. piqued Says:

    NC, as well you know it’s a throwback to an age where it was acceptable to do many things that aren’t unacceptable now, like the Victorian predilection for the buggering of boys and more pertinently, slavery

  38. ugeine Says:

    Napoleon: No, I wouldn’t ring up the sun. I’d have said ‘don’t you think that’s a bit of silly thing to say as a black person?’ If she said ‘Yes, I guess that I realise that there might be a negative connotation in what I said, and commenting that a black person looks a lot like a negative racial stereotype remnant of an era where it was perfectly acceptable to use such racial stereotypes to advertise jam would cause a lot of offence to people, so I’m sorry’ I’d have not taken it further.

    I don’t even have a number for somebody at The Sun.

  39. Mel Says:

    Yes, they discontinued the use of the Golliwog logo in 2002

  40. Nick T Says:

    Not everything Naps, just racist comments.

    *makes notes*

    *wrotes “Hog” next to Naps name*

    *Never sees Naps and Littlejohn on the same room at the same time ….*

  41. Ashby de la Launde Says:

    What’s wrong with sexy dinnerladies?

  42. Swineshead Says:

    The doll was created in an ignorant time when racism was inherent in society. Making reference to it is desperately unoriginal and potentially very offensive. ‘Golliwog’ means literally ‘Golly! A wog!’

    So best avoided then. Carol didn’t avoid it, and I think her contract will probably state that she’s legally up for the sack.

    Goodbye Carol.

  43. Mel Says:

    Ugeine, I believe that the Red Tops all advertise their numbers prominently within their publications. So that their readers can provide their content. It is lazy journalism, IMHO.

  44. ugeine Says:

    Not that there’s anything against using a common racial slur to advertise products, of course. I’ve been eating ‘dirty yellow Chinese monkey washing up liquid’ for yonks now.

  45. Napoleon Says:

    Whatever its connotations, it doesn’t take away from the fact the woman wasn’t calling somebody a gollywog. She said their haircut made them look like a gollywog. Regardless of how much you personally take offense at the term she used (and it was amusing to listen to yesterday’s Radio 2 phone-in where a black woman rang up to say she didn’t find it offensive and could white middle-class people stop getting offended on her behalf), her actions weren’t actually racist.

  46. ugeine Says:

    Christ Napoleon, not the old anecdotal ‘black person finds it OK’ defence?

  47. Swineshead Says:

    I once tried to call The Sun whilst pissed on homemade vodka, having stolen a home video of a barman at a pub I frequented being pissed on by a well known (at that time) page 3 girl.

    Unsuccessful, I continued to drink the demi-John of homemade vodka into the dawn before a flatmate warned me that the barman was coming round, on the warpath. I fled to a friend’s house with a VHS recorder, intent on copying the video, convinced my fortune lay on it. I was too drunk to copy the video and woke up several hours later in an ex-girlfriend’s wardrobe with multiple face-shaving injuries. I had turned 21 in my sleep.

    I don’t drink any more.

    My name is Swineshead, and I am an arsehole.

  48. Nick T Says:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1535348.stm

  49. Ashby de la Launde Says:

    Why does the view of one black woman represent the views of black people as whole? Is it because they’re all the same?

    Why does an increase in social awareness on behalf of a people who have been for hundreds of years institutinally and openly racist invite derision and suspicion?

  50. Napoleon Says:

    Ugeine – I wasn’t using it as a defence. I don’t need to defend Thatcher’s comment as it wasn’t racist. I was merely pointing it out because I found it amusing. It’s similar to when someone gets their knickers in a twist that they might have offended the Muslims without bothering to ask any Muslims.

    Little Big Planet, anyone?

  51. Swineshead Says:

    That black woman’s trying to spoil our fun.

    Let’s get her!

  52. piqued Says:

    ‘Why does an increase in social awareness on behalf of a people who have been for hundreds of years institutinally and openly racist invite derision and suspicion?’

    ‘a people?’ Being black isn’t ‘a people’ though.

  53. Napoleon Says:

    There was a whiff of racism coming off that comment you quoted up there, Piqued. Anyone got the number for The Daily Star?

  54. Swineshead Says:

    He’s talking about The Brits, isn’t he, Piqued?

  55. piqued Says:

    I was being pedantic of course, sooner or later someone might connect Caucasian old me to The Boers and I’m not having that shit

  56. Swineshead Says:

    And why are you wearing that ridiculous afro, Piqued? You look like a scouser.

  57. piqued Says:

    ‘He’s talking about The Brits, isn’t he, Piqued?’

    Well that’s sort of my point

  58. Swineshead Says:

    You were being wrong – you misread his comment. NUMBSKULL.

  59. Swineshead Says:

    Does it really matter, when we all came from bears anyway?

    http://www.viddler.com/explore/Partario/videos/1/

  60. Mel Says:

    Although the flip side to the argument that Nappers i s putting forward is that sometimes stupid things are decided on behalf of a group without asking them. For example, it became popular (particularly in local authorities) to stop using the term ‘brainstorm’, as it may offend people with epilepsy, and so people had to use the utterly risible ‘thought shower’, which at best sound like you have a dirty mind. The people at Epilepsy Action, who *can* be said to represent those with epilepsy actually came out against this. I think they said that both were meaningless management-speak, but that they did not find brainstorm offensive, and that everyone should stop being silly.

    However, i don’t think this argument applies in this case, because ‘golliwog’ has often been used as a pejorative term, and many black people have said that they are offended by it.

  61. Napoleon Says:

    Mel – Balls.

  62. John Q Wagonwheel Says:

    Golliwogs – created when black people were a novelty, now redundant. It’s not as bad as waving a Nazi flag, it just declares total ignorance.

    I’d like to think that she’s not so utterly thick that she used it for anything other than comparison of appearance, hopefully knowingly. But as I say, there’s no evidence for any of this, so she shouldn’t have been sacked. Produce the body, and all that…

    That said, I’m sure we can look forward to a ‘political correctness gone mad’ classic from Littlejohn.

  63. John Q Wagonwheel Says:

    Mel – calling people a group is equally dodgy.

  64. Ashby de la Launde Says:

    I was in the chip shop the other day and a man’s phone rang, bearing a comical ringtone featuring a faux Peter Sellars Indian voice saying ‘ring ring, your phone is ringing.’ My Pakistani girlfriend was seemingly unperturbed, assuming she even heard it.

    Does that make the ringtone racist, acceptable or hilarious?

  65. piqued Says:

    ‘I’d like to think that she’s not so utterly thick that she used it for anything other than comparison of appearance’

    So, by your logic is fine to say ‘it’s as dark as a nigger’, then?

  66. John Q Wagonwheel Says:

    No, because that’s not specific, you racist.

  67. Napoleon Says:

    Not really comparing like for like there, are you? We can all find extremes that fit our argument, Piqued.

  68. Swineshead Says:

    The problem is that the oversensitivity argument (which seems to be the tenet of the Thatcher defence) is done no favours by the likes of Littlejohn…

    I think Thatcher’s just out of touch. Most people of her age are on this, as they’ve been exposed to the ignorance of pre-enlightnment and the potential oversensitivity of post-political correctness.

  69. piqued Says:

    And a comparing a black mans hair to a Golliwog isn’t specific at all is it

  70. Mel Says:

    JQW – i ahve typed quite a lot today, so i used group as a collective term for group/ peopl ethat share and affliliation through shared identity/gender/race/hair colour/ disability/inability/laziness/job/geography/ability/talent/religion/tribe/football team/interest/ and any other item that one could aggregate a group of people with through the use of a venn or similar diagram.

    Is that better?

  71. John Q Wagonwheel Says:

    Well, I’d like to think that each of our generations will end up being horrible old racists in the eyes of the youngest. That’d at least show a progression.

  72. The Spaghetti Says:

    Blimey, what’s going on? The other day fashion, and now a reasoned debate about the ill-judged use of a rascist term.

    Can you lot please get back to insulting each other in a base and highly amusing (from where I’m sitting) way?

    Call me cynical, but Thatcher was sacked where Ross wasn’t ‘cos he’s worth more to the Beeb. Plus, he’s (allegedly) a cutting edge comedian. Or, according to my personal dictionary, nauseating and unfunny.

  73. Swineshead Says:

    My oriental missus was pretty disgusted by that Miley Cyrus shot. I’m glad we’re not talking about that as it’s even more vague than this.

  74. John Q Wagonwheel Says:

    Mel – fine if you’re a statistician, not fine if you’re talking about people’s sensitivities and allegiances, as they vary wildly from one person to the next. Frankly, unless it’s a group they’ve signed up to, I’d rather not use it at all. Sorry to pick you up on semantics though, it’s annoying isn’t it?

  75. piqued Says:

    SH, I agree with you re hypersensitivity and political correctness taken to extremes but, in this instance, I think the accusations of ‘racist comment’ are founded

  76. Mr H Says:

    I’ve said my piece here;
    http://ascandalandadisgrace.blogspot.com/2009/02/bbc-in-racism-shock.html

  77. Napoleon Says:

    I just don’t see Thatcher saying somebody was as dark as a nigger, Piqued. Therefore your comparison is extreme and silly.

    I also suspect you’re spitting bile about this woman because of who her mother happens to be. Look, we all know you lost your outdated northern manufacturing job in the ’80s, and we all know you miss the economic boom times of the ’70s that that bitch Thatcher put a stop to, but that’s no excuse to take it out on her kids, yeah? Yeah?

  78. John Q Wagonwheel Says:

    In looser terms than you make it sound though, piqued. It doesn’t appear to have been directed as an insult. It was just an analogy made to a particular stereoptypical image.

  79. The Spaghetti Says:

    However it was intended, it is nowadays regarded as a racist term. In this day and age, if you use language like that, you run the risk of being fired.

  80. John Q Wagonwheel Says:

    And yet they say we live in a Liberal society. Good one.

  81. Napoleon Says:

    Wagonwheel’s right. Everyone seems to have forgotten the woman was comparing somebody’s haircut to that of a gollywog’s. Still, carry on thinking she’s worse than Hitler. The racist bitch.

  82. The Spaghetti Says:

    It’s a pity I’m at work ‘cos this is a good debate.

    On the flip side, in this Liberal society, should people have to hear others suing that term???

  83. The Spaghetti Says:

    Sorry “using”, not “suing”

  84. Mel Says:

    That group ‘they’ eh JQT?

    For the record, ‘they’ are mistaken.

  85. Napoleon Says:

    If you said someone with all wobbly hair looked like spunk, would that be jizzism? Would it offend semen equality groups?

  86. piqued Says:

    I don’t see what the problem is here, she made a racist comment, end of argument. You’re splitting hairs to try and justify it whilst simultaneously admitting that it was indeed offensive. Why bother?

    I’ll admit that there may be some too-ing a fro-ing with regard to her sacking as the comment was made off air. In my opinion, she has been rightly dismissed.

  87. John Q Wagonwheel Says:

    ‘they’, the casual term for the individual, duh. Or do you usually use it in that context to mean ‘the man’ or ‘everyone’? I don’t because I’m not a retard.

  88. John Q Wagonwheel Says:

    retard used here in the most affectionate sense. SUM OV MY BEST FRIENDZ IS RETARDZ!

  89. Ashby de la Launde Says:

    Napolean – you keep forgetting that the phrase ‘gollywog’ is the sole preserve of racism.

    Also, the term ‘bitch’ is sexist.

    Apart from that, carry on.

  90. Napoleon Says:

    Piqued – She didn’t make a racist comment. She made a comparison.

  91. John Q Wagonwheel Says:

    “On the flip side, in this Liberal society, should people have to hear others suing that term???”

    Freedom of speech is a two-way street, Spaghetti. Means you have to hear things you don’t want to sometimes. Coping with it is what makes people adults.

  92. piqued Says:

    ‘Piqued – She didn’t make a racist comment. She made a comparison’

    *falls over*

  93. Swineshead Says:

    Are we all agreed that the fact the golliwog is no longer a popular icon is a good thing?

    Further, are we all agreed that the association of a golliqog with a black person would almost universally be construed as an offensive association, outmoded and archaic?

    If yes, the debate is over, surely?

  94. Napoleon Says:

    Need a hand up?

  95. John Q Wagonwheel Says:

    Might potentially be construed that way by oversensitive folk. Still think it’s not a firing matter unless it can be ascertained that what she said was actually racist. Haven’t heard any real evidence for that so far.

  96. Napoleon Says:

    I couldn’t care less if a golliwog was popular or not. It’s a kid’s toy and something that used to appear on jam jars.

    As for the association thing, some will take offence, some won’t. ‘Orses for courses.

  97. Swineshead Says:

    JQW – stop talking shit!

    Freedom of speech doesn’t include the use of racist language.

    Remember that bit in Five Go Mad in Dorset where George shouts at a man of uncertain ethnic origin ‘Oh look! It’s Tarzan!’?

    That’s the same as this, so it is.

  98. Mel Says:

    JQW, I agree that one sometimes hears some things that one would not wish to. I don’t think that people should cope with it, in the sense of putting up with it. I think that part of being an adult is the ability to tackle someone over their prejudices. They may still hold those beliefs, but they will learn that it is not acceptable to express them.

    This for me, is the crux of the argument about Ms Thatcher. She surely knows now that it is not deemed acceptable to use the language that she used, whether as a comparison or not. However, I still think that the person that used the Sun to make her realise this is a coward, and should have tackled it in person.

  99. John Q Wagonwheel Says:

    It does, as long as it’s not being used by the state. Sticks and stones, SH.

  100. John Q Wagonwheel Says:

    Oh certainly, Mel. Naturally things said are to be argued over. But as it stands, Ms. Thatch isn’t even getting a chance to do that, she’s been fired out of hand without a chance to argue her corner.

  101. Napoleon Says:

    So any use of ‘gollywog’ is now using racist language, is it, regardless of the context it’s being used in? How the hell do I describe what I want when I buy one in that shop I saw in Scarborough?

    Plus, would anyone have jumped on this high-horse if Thatcher had described Leo Sayer as looking like a gollywog?

  102. John Q Wagonwheel Says:

    Jeezus SH, really, you can’t say ‘freedom of speech’ and then list exceptions.

  103. Napoleon Says:

    That bit in Five Go Mad isn’t the same. They weren’t saying that fella’s hair made him look like Tarzan.

  104. John Q Wagonwheel Says:

    Unless the term is challenged and then repeated to the point of bullying (which is a proper offence) it should be useable by anyone. At risk of being disproven, naturally.

  105. piqued Says:

    ‘Plus, would anyone have jumped on this high-horse if Thatcher had described Leo Sayer as looking like a gollywog?’

    As Leo Sayer is a Honky I should imagine she’d be carted off to Specsavers

  106. Swineshead Says:

    JQW – she most likely broke terms in her contract. We’re talking employment law.

    Nappers – I didn’t say that – but did you really buy a golliwog? He he! What larks!

  107. Ashby de la Launde Says:

    ‘How the hell do I describe what I want when I buy one in that shop I saw in Scarborough?’

    “An outmoded relic of a bygone and unpleasant era. The proprieter should be ashamed to place such an item on sale. I’m going to smash up this shop.”

  108. Nick T Says:

    He’s having a go at the horses now!

    I didn’t realiei we were living in a liberal society. When did that start?

  109. Napoleon Says:

    “As Leo Sayer is a Honky I should imagine she’d be carted off to Specsavers”

    1. Honky? Pot, kettle, all that jazz.
    2. The hair’s the same. I think you’re missing the point that it’s all about the hair, Piqued.
    3. You’re a moron.

  110. piqued Says:

    You can get Golly’s from The Queen

    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/royals/article2206808.ece

  111. piqued Says:

    ‘Honky? Pot, kettle, all that jazz.’

    I was being ironic, obviously

  112. Napoleon Says:

    Swineshead – No, I didn’t buy a gollywog. I just wonder what you PC policemen suggest I say if I did. Thankfully, ADLL has told me what to say (and how I should think). Phew!

  113. Swineshead Says:

    ‘That bit in Five Go Mad isn’t the same. They weren’t saying that fella’s hair made him look like Tarzan.’

    I don’t really need to answer that.

    You can pick over which body part she was referring to all day long, the fact is the simple association twixt a golliwog and a black person is fucking stupid, (whatever context) to the nth degree – and refusing to apologise is stupider still.

    She needs to reread her contract before throwing words around without thinking, eh?

  114. Napoleon Says:

    “She needs to reread her contract before throwing words around without thinking, eh?”

    A session in Room 101, perhaps?

  115. Swineshead Says:

    PC policemen? You couldn’t make us up, eh?

    Let’s ask the tennis player what HE thinks, even though it’s irrelevant.

  116. Napoleon Says:

    “You can get Golly’s from The Queen”

    No you can’t. She’s got rid of ’em.

  117. Nick T Says:

    Manuel was called a”dago” by Basil…….

    *ties it all together?*

  118. John Q Wagonwheel Says:

    SH – her contract most likely said she couldn’t discriminate on racial grounds or incite ‘racial hatred’ or even perhaos use ‘racist language’ – a brilliant term for restricting freedom of speech. As the first two haven’t been proved and the last is risible in itself, I still say she’s been dismissed out of hand.

  119. Swineshead Says:

    There is room in the universe for cultural sensitivity, and if idiots like Thatcher suffer as a result of it, I will not shed a tear.

    The stupid old twat.

  120. Napoleon Says:

    Piqued – Oh, well that’s alright then. As long as you were being ironic. Shame Thatcher didn’t think to use that excuse, eh?

  121. piqued Says:

    ‘her contract most likely said…’

    Fucking lawyer are we now

  122. Mel Says:

    JQW – if that is the case, then she can take the beeb to an industrial tribunal. If there is no case, she will win.

  123. John Q Wagonwheel Says:

    Nick T – that ‘Liberal, Democractic society’ we’re always being told we live in by twits. I was being sarcastic.

  124. Napoleon Says:

    I doubt that tennis player would give two fucks if some woman he’s never heard of described his hair as making him look like a gollywog, frankly. He’s probably too busy playing tennis.

  125. John Q Wagonwheel Says:

    SH – Lovely, now you’re trying to combine culture with race.

    Mel – I’d say go for it. They still won’t give her a job again, which is nuts (although not particularly, as I think she’s a talentless hack).

  126. Swineshead Says:

    When you sign a contract, JQW, you take on board the restrictions within. Restricting yourself from using casual references to bygone images of black stereotyping is hardly corrupting your freedom of speech! It’s asking you to be mindful of the people around you.

    Especially if you’re a broadcaster. Especially if you’re gathered in a room in a meeting about Comic Relief – which provides aid to Africa, lest we forget.

    You little upstart.

  127. John Q Wagonwheel Says:

    Piqued – Obviously I’m not a lawyer, those are just the sorts of things they could possibly get away with putting a contract, thanks to recent New Labour laws.

  128. Swineshead Says:

    ‘SH – Lovely, now you’re trying to combine culture with race.’

    Meaningless objection there, well done.

  129. Napoleon Says:

    She wasn’t in a meeting about Comic Relief. She was in the green room talking to Adrian Childs after a recording of The One Show. I reckon it was that miserabilist Jo Brand spilled the beans. No doubt the very word ‘Thatcher’ gets her back up, wot with her being off of the ’80s.

  130. John Q Wagonwheel Says:

    Not at all. You were saying that cultural sensitivity is the same as racial sensitivity. Which is a bit racist if you ask me.

  131. Swineshead Says:

    They said it was about Comic Relief on the BBC this morning.

    All the same – it’s no great loss. She’s hardly a great talent.

  132. John Q Wagonwheel Says:

    Then again, that was pretty much done by the Racial and Religious Hatred Act as well, so you’ve got precedent.

  133. Nick T Says:

    Me too John Q

    Is Jo Brand miserablist?

    Well you never can tell…..

  134. John Q Wagonwheel Says:

    SH – Agreed.

  135. Swineshead Says:

    Fair dos, ‘cultural’ should have been ‘racial’.

    Well – that’s blown my argument out of the water – well done.

  136. Napoleon Says:

    It was after an episode focusing on Comic Relief. It was quite a good one, as it ‘appens. You could see the venom in Brand’s eyes when she was sitting next to Thatcher. I reckon this is her revenge for Thatcher having the brass neck to have been born out of the fanny of Mrs. Thatcher – the most evil woman who has ever lived©.

  137. John Q Wagonwheel Says:

    Anyway, lecture on European film now. An afternoon on the camera techniques of Robbie Muller. I needed a good nap.

  138. Swineshead Says:

    I watched it, now I think on it. Thatcher was wearing hideous trousers.

    Good riddance!

  139. piqued Says:

    ‘All the same – it’s no great loss. She’s hardly a great talent’

    I’d go further by suggesting that if she wasn’t the offspring of that Swiss-cheese-minded crone she’d be trying to get her redundancy from Woolworth. No offence to recently-made-redundant Woolworth staff I hasten to add.

  140. Swineshead Says:

    You’ll be missed, JQW.

    Actually, having said that…

  141. piqued Says:

    JQW, there is a perfectly good Nap ‘ere. Well, he’s alright. A bit racist mind

  142. Napoleon Says:

    She wasn’t wearing hideous trousers, she was wearing hideous boots. And the look Brand gave her was one of pure hatred when Thatcher showed her those boots.

    I don’t mind her, personally. I thought the way her, Brandreth and that gardening woman scared the shit out of celebrities was good telly. Now there’s only two.

  143. Napoleon Says:

    Piqued – Not only am I not racist, but I also know what racist means. Unlike you – the man who thought Andrew Sachs’s portrayal of Manuel was racist.

    You really should buy a dictionary.

  144. Telemachus Says:

    This is a perculiarly British conundrum as the said term only has connotations in Britain. It would mean nothing in any other country.

    btw: she has not been sacked by the BBC but axed from the one show.

  145. piqued Says:

    I never said anything of the sort you man-hater

  146. piqued Says:

    ‘This is a perculiarly British conundrum as the said term only has connotations in Britain.’

    Do you know what the BBC stands for?

  147. Swineshead Says:

    Anyway, lecture on European film now. An afternoon on the camera techniques of Robbie Muller. I needed a good nap.

    *goes back to digs and weeps*

  148. Napoleon Says:

    Piqued – Yes you did, because you’re an ignoramous.

    Lindsey Buckingham should try cheering up in the video of his song ‘Holiday Road’, I reckon. Come on, Lindsey! You’re off on fucking ‘oliday, son. They’re not marching you off to Belsen!

  149. roszs Says:

    If I had an evil old right wing bitch of a mother I’d be doubly careful to avoid using outdated racist terminology.

    She shouldn’t be sacked for being racist, she should be sacked for being THICK.

  150. piqued Says:

    That’s Robert Powell you twat

  151. roszs Says:

    You can get golliwogs in all sorts of odd places. In Bronte-tourist-trap Haworth in West Yorkshire there’s about 3 shops full of ’em. I went there with a friend of Indian extraction once and he bought a golliwog moneybox. It made my Guardian reading brain EXPLODE.

  152. Napoleon Says:

    “If I had an evil old right wing bitch of a mother …”

    You never got over losing your job down the pits, did you?

  153. Telemachus Says:

    Now 2 points..

    “I think Thatcher’s just out of touch. Most people of her age are on this, as they’ve been exposed to the ignorance of pre-enlightnment and the potential oversensitivity of post-political correctness.” Swineshead.

    This is a fantastic comment. (great writing).

    “Well, I’d like to think that each of our generations will end up being horrible old racists in the eyes of the youngest. That’d at least show a progression.” JQW

    Good point, but there will be a generation who see this age as the age of Nationalism, and man’s inhumanity to his fellow man and environment. Is there much to be gained by getting our knickers in a twist over this? There are for more important issues to be addressed.

  154. ugeine Says:

    Have we sorted it out yet?

  155. piqued Says:

    Good point well made Telemachus, in the light of your last sentence, Brazilian or Hairy?

  156. roszs Says:

    NC – Various members of my family didn’t, no. The BITCH.

  157. Napoleon Says:

    Roszs – Well perhaps they should have done some work instead of spending the 1970s standing out in the car park demanding more money whilst the rest of the country fell flat on its arse? Just a thought, like.

    Best prime minister we ever ‘ad …

    (Except Churchill, obviously)

  158. Napoleon Says:

    “… there will be a generation who see this age as the age of Nationalism, and man’s inhumanity to his fellow man and environment.”

    Nothing wrong with that. The last Iraq War was fucking ace if you turned the sound down and watched it listening to Saxon and Slayer albums dead loud.

  159. Telemachus Says:

    Also I am not sure if you are correct about the Black Tennis player. I heard that she was referring to Andy Murray.

  160. Napoleon Says:

    I’d heard that.

  161. piqued Says:

    ‘Saxon and Slayer’

    Oh dear NC, oh dear oh dear

  162. Badger Madge Says:

    Skipped most of this as you’re waffling too much.

    I’m not a dinnerlady. I’m a sexy maid of course.

    Mel and others: Apparently her colleagues (Chiles, etc) did castigate her at the time but she laughed it off.

  163. Badger Madge Says:

    Oh, and apparently she was talking about Nadal!

  164. Badger Madge Says:

    there’s a shop in bath that sells gollywogs. i’m ashamed. who would BUY such a thing???

  165. Telemachus Says:

    According to wikipedia, “It has since transpired in the media that it was the métis French top player Jo Wilfried Tsonga who was the target of Carol Thatcher’s comments”.

  166. Swineshead Says:

    It just gets weirder and weirder…

    Still – my point stands that TV is better off without the boring old crone.

    And that’s not sexist/ageist.

  167. Telemachus Says:

    It has since transpired in the media that it was the métis French top player Jo Wilfried Tsonga who was the target of Carol Thatcher’s comments

  168. piqued Says:

    Carol Thatcher

  169. Swineshead Says:

    I just googled this Tsonga fella, and from what I can gather, he doesn’t even wear a bow tie.

  170. Nick T Says:

    I’d say more like Actionman http://blogs.abc.net.au/photos/tennis_australian_open/tsonga.jpg

  171. piqued Says:

    Christ, what the fuck was she thinking?

  172. Napoleon Says:

    Has that been proved? I’ve heard a few reports that it was a white tennis player with a huge ‘fro she was talking about.

    John McEnroe, circa 1981?

  173. Nick T Says:

    She wasn’t…

  174. Napoleon Says:

    “‘Saxon and Slayer’

    Oh dear NC, oh dear oh dear2

    A man who openly admits to liking Hawkwind has no room to criticise, Piqued.

  175. Napoleon Says:

    Nick – How do you know?

  176. Badger Madge Says:

    anyway i suppose it doesn’t matter who she was talking about…

  177. piqued Says:

    ““‘Saxon and Slayer’

    Oh dear NC, oh dear oh dear2

    A man who openly admits to liking Hawkwind has no room to criticise, Piqued.”

    I was merely bemoaning the grouping, it’s like resting a baby onto plops

  178. Napoleon Says:

    Other rock music combos are available when watching war with the sound down.

  179. Nick T Says:

    Evidently if she had thought that she might get in the dooda , she wouldn’t have said it. She did’nt think that, she made the remark…..

    His hair does not look like the hair of the gollywog toy.

  180. Nick T Says:

    Or of “new Australian” Leo Sayer…

  181. Telemachus Says:

    Robertson’s officially ‘retired’ Golly in 2002. The company had found that Golly was, on the whole, no longer popular with the children of families, although the scheme was still successful with adult collectors.

    Robertson’s always insisted that they did not retire the Golly because of political pressure (some people considered the Golly to be racist), but simply for commercial reasons: Ginny Knox, brand director at Robertson’s said, “We are retiring Golly because we found families with kids no longer necessarily knew about him. We are not bowing to political correctness, but like with any great brand we have to move with the times.”[

    From wikipedia.

    NOW…if you are using a simile to an image that was on a breakfast table until 2002, is this rascist? Is the image to be banished from our minds? It is a comparison to an image.

    If you believe it is not correct to use this simile, then what about if a white friend of yours gets a short haircut, is it fair to joke that they look like a skinhead, knowing full well they are nothing of the sort.

    The problem with all this is that people are making it a yes/no, right/wrong issue, when a sensible discussion and the full facts would make things clearer.

    My knickers are getting twisted over this!

  182. Napoleon Says:

    Sounds like Telemachus is being a bit racist to me.

  183. Nick T Says:

    *checks Telemachus on BNP regester*

  184. Napoleon Says:

    From Wikipedia:

    “Telemachus is a big raysist ‘cos he dunt like blak fellas or nuffin.”

    It says the article’s in dispute, but I’ve chosen to ignore that.

  185. Badger Madge Says:

    I don’t thin it’s the same as calling your mate a skinhead because it doesn’t have the same connotations at all. Gollywog is linked to slavery and that’s why people are so offended by it. Skin heads are… well…

    Basically I don’t think it’s the same.

    *Goes back to thinking about shoes*

  186. Napoleon Says:

    Gollywogs have links to slavery now, do they? What else? Herod’s slaughter of the first born? The Manhatten project?

  187. Nick T Says:

    Shoeist!

    *shakes fist*

    *goes home*

  188. Badger Madge Says:

    http://www.understandingslavery.com/citizen/explore/glossary/?letter=G

  189. Portable Dishwasher Dude Says:

    Our world is WAY too sensitive about race. Does it really all have to be about race? You can’t hardly criticize Obama here in the states without being called a racist.

  190. Swineshead Says:

    Sorry, PDD, but your comment has the distinct whiff of racism about it.

  191. ugeine Says:

    ‘Other rock music combos are available when watching war with the sound down.’

    Keane?

  192. Nick of the T Says:

    Agreed SH.

    Lets talk about circumcision tomorrow eh?

    Something we can all agree on….

  193. J Marie Says:

    P’raps the word police should similarly ban the word ” barbie”, as this word can be used to be derogatory about white girls implying they have little brain.

    Where is the Word Champion who will defend our language and say no word in itself carries offence?

    My mum taught me sticks and stones will break my bones , but names wil never hurt me”

    People need to recognise thet freedom of speech is more important for all of any race, than whether any one particular word gives, ( or is taken in), offence or not.

  194. Telemachus Says:

    I think this is the best view that I have read.
    http://women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/women/the_way_we_live/article5671433.ece

  195. Nick T Says:

    J Marie, white girls have never benn….oh I can’t be bothered, you don’t want to get it.

    Why don’t racists just ‘fess up and say they’re racists?

  196. John Q Wagonwheel Says:

    Just realised I have a couple of old inherited golliwog books at home. Pretty rubbish stories, mind. Antiques though. No doubt I’ll now have my ownership of those books lambasted as tantamount to collecting Nazi skin-lampshades.

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